BND: No Evidence of Russian Propaganda/Interference in German Election

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Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:00 am

"German intelligence was unable to produce any conclusive evidence of Russia waging a disinformation campaign against Berlin ... Having spent nearly one year on a joint investigation, the German Federal Intelligence Service (BND) and the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution (BfV) have failed to produce any conclusive evidence of Russia perpetrating a disinformation campaign against the German federal government ... the security agencies were initially planning to at least partially disclose their findings to the public, but due to the utter lack of evidence – or 'smoking gun,' as the government officials put it – they chose not to publish the investigation report at all"
https://sputniknews.com/europe/20170207 ... stigation/

"German intelligence agencies have no evidence of Russian influence in Germany ... BND and federal constitutional protection have determined ... 'We have not found any smoking gun' ... However, the Chancellor's Office ordered the investigation to be further investigated ... convinced Russia's hostile interference ... Because, according to the government, the lack of evidence is not a reason for a acquittal of Russia ... Angela Merkel commissioned the investigation by BND ... Last year already had several politicians, including Wolfgang Bosbach (CDU) and Christian Lindner (FDP), warned of a manipulation of the election by the Russian government."
Original: http://www.huffingtonpost.de/2017/02/06 ... 32114.html
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... rev=search

"Is Russia manipulating the German public? German intelligence agencies have determined, they did not find evidence according to a report. But there is still cause for concern ... German intelligence agencies, according to a media report no evidence of a specific Russian disinformation campaign against the federal government. That was come out at a nearly one-year investigation of the Federal Intelligence Service (BND) and the Federal Office for Protection of the Constitution (BfV) ... Chancellor Angela Merkel (CDU) have the examination ... commissioned ... At the beginning of 2016 a 13-year-old Russian-German had claimed that she had been raped by 'southern countries.' Russian state media then attacked Merkel's refugee policy, in social media was rushed against foreigners and the federal government. However, it turned out that the girl had made a misrepresentation. The intelligence report accordingly stated loud SZ since 2014, a 'confrontational course' Russia against Germany and is called the coverage of Russian media and its German offshoot as RT German and Sputnik News hostile"
Original: http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/ ... eimdienste
Translated: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... rev=search

"German intelligence agencies have not found any clear evidence for a Russian disinformation campaign against the federal government, but they do not give an all-clear. According to information from Süddeutscher Zeitung, NDR and WDR, this is the result of nearly one year's investigation by the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) and the Federal Office for Constitutional Protection (BfV). Original reflections, which have been classified as secret curses, were at least partially published. ... 'We have not found a smoking gun,' the government said ... could intervene in the elections, for example by publishing secret documents captured by hacker attacks ... The investigation was commissioned by Chancellor Angela Merkel after 'Fall Lisa.' Russian media and politicians had caused a stir after the alleged rape of a 13-year-old ... It was initially assumed that Russian government agencies or intelligence services orchestrated protests. But this could not be proven 'in any of the cases,' the report says"
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/gehe ... -1.3365839
The same situation is developing in Germany as was developing in the United States during the election. Western propaganda claimed that the Russians were hacking and "interfering" with the election, while the intelligence community investigated these claims, reporting that no such evidence exists. Following which, POTUS rejected that conclusion, ordered USIC to re-investigate, and the conclusion was the opposite - but still no evidence was shown. So, we see the that Russia reported on that girl having been raped by what sounds to be Middle Eastern refugees, but Russia reporting on that is "hostile," because it's "disinformation," because "the girl made a misrepresentation." Of course, the government makes no effort to prove the girl "misrepresented" the situation. Instead, they simply claim it, and expect the public to be convinced by the government's authority alone.
"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused Germany of 'covering up reality in a politically correct manner for the sake of domestic politics' ... 'it's completely clear that she didn't disappear voluntarily for 30 hours' ... Lavrov was referring to reports in the Russian media that a 13-year-old girl from a Russian immigrant family was abducted in Berlin on January 11th by 'Arab-looking men' and raped repeatedly over a 30-hour period. Berlin police have furiously denied this version of events, saying that while the girl did go missing briefly, any sexual contact appears to have been consensual"
https://www.thelocal.de/20160126/moscow ... ssian-girl

"In Berlin police have denied a story spread on social media that a 13-year-old girl was abducted and raped by refugees and that police subsequently tried to cover the incident up ... Police in Bavaria, meanwhile, have started a social media campaign to discourage people from sharing rumours on social media without checking up on the truth of them first, after a post claiming a police-cover up of a sexual assault by a refugee went viral. ... Police warnings of this sort are nothing new. In October 2015 police in Saxony reported that 'rumours have been spreading uncontrollably over the internet in the last few weeks.' Without mentioning what specifically the rumours related to, police in the east German state warned that spreading hearsay over social media without checking the facts was creating hysteria"
https://www.thelocal.de/20160121/police ... n-refugees
Hence why Facebook and Google have announced they will be working with various governments and media to suppress "fake news" stories as these. Because, after all, if the German government might be covering something up, who better to ask than the German government? It's not as though the German government had strategic reasons to cover up the rape of a thirteen year old girl allegedly committed by what sound to be Middle Eastern refugees, when Merkel and her party were suffering tremendously poor poll ratings and the nation itself experiencing developing unrest and resentment toward the government as a result of the ongoing refugee crisis Merkel and her CDU created. No, surely it would be wise to do exactly what the German government recommended: Ask the government if they're covering anything up, and take their word for it when they predictably respond "no."

This will be an increasingly relevant circumstance.

Related: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8394
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krzepice1976
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Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:19 pm

Fake news -just selectoin somę article to prove that russian are not resposible for propagadna againt not RUSIAN PUPETS
In germany SPD is russian pupet.spd is a party responsible for aggresive pro russian policy( gid examle pipeline opal and nord stream).
Spd is on goverment and they lock everything which can hurt them, all of them (from russia point of view) were forced by Merkel.

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Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:41 pm

krzepice1976 wrote:Fake news -just selectoin somę article to prove that russian are not resposible for propagadna againt not RUSIAN PUPETS
In germany SPD is russian pupet.spd is a party responsible for aggresive pro russian policy( gid examle pipeline opal and nord stream).
Spd is on goverment and they lock everything which can hurt them, all of them (from russia point of view) were forced by Merkel.
The report submitted by Germany's Federal Intelligence Service (BND), after a year's investigation, is "fake news?" Also, why are you bringing political parties into the discussion, claiming "SPD is a Russian puppet?" What does SPD have to do with BND? Merkel is CDU, and she controls BND. It would then stand to reason that BND is CDU. Furthermore, to claim "SPD is a Russian puppet" is like the claims made during the US election that Trump is a Russian puppet. I do agree that Russia appears to be buying German politicians through subsidiaries as Gazprom Germania, as reflected by the German political establishment's behavior toward Nord Stream 2. However, I've seen no evidence that Russia is buying influence among SPD exclusively. I'm interested to hear your evidence, if you have any, but a larger number of SPD wanting a less confrontational relationship with Russia doesn't mean they're Russian pawns. CDU and SPD are virtually identical after all. Also, I'll reiterate, BND's report and articles covering BND's report isn't "fake news," the report is believable, and the original news source is credible.
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Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:20 pm

"Following a year-long inquiry, German intelligence agencies have found no reliable evidence of a Russian “disinformation campaign” against Chancellor Angela Merkel’s government, according to media citing cabinet and security sources ... 'We have not found any smoking gun,' a cabinet source told the paper. The inquiry was similar to the US intelligence community’s efforts to attribute the notorious 2016 Democratic National Convention email leak to Russian ‘hacking groups' Initially, the secret services planned to release excerpts of their classified inquiry, but given the lack of evidence, the move would make Russian-German relations even more strained, according to the newspaper. Chancellor Merkel’s office has, however, now directed the intelligence agencies to conduct a new inquiry. Notably, a ‘psychological operations group’ jointly run by the BND and BfV will specifically look at Russian news agencies’ coverage in Germany. Despite the findings, the German intelligence services maintain that Russia has pursued a 'more confrontational course' towards Germany since 2014, and call the coverage of Russian media, including RT Deutsch and Sputnik, 'hostile.'"
https://www.rt.com/news/376586-germany- ... ce-report/
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Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:40 pm

Russia today is not credible source of information about Germany. Basicly they select some fact which match to their point of view.(apply to all west countries) RT is owned by Russian goverment, so basicly they present owner (Russian goverment )point of view.
It is RT standard you double standards.
RT do not show internal games inside Russia which has impact on world policy.
It mean basicly that RT shall be used only to see Russian goverment post of view (expectation).

Good example well played by russian disinformation is Opal pipeline. Important for Russia mix of policy and economy.
RT is seen by many nato contries as a information war tool.

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Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:26 pm

A good example information policy
Russian state broadcaster RT are promoting this petition to 'remove' Sadiq Khan as London Mayor. https://t.co/Ze5ug4apM1

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Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:54 am

krzepice1976 wrote:Russia today is not credible source of information about Germany.
No news source is unbiased. British outlets run British propaganda, American outlets run American propaganda, Russian outlets run Russian propaganda. One would be a fool to truly trust any news outlet.
krzepice1976 wrote:Basicly they select some fact which match to their point of view.(apply to all west countries) RT is owned by Russian goverment, so basicly they present owner (Russian goverment )point of view.
As with all major news outlets, RT has an agenda, and is attempting to manipulate its viewers and readers into believing and behaving in the manner that they wish. RT is however little different from western media. You've been, for example, conditioned by western media to believe Russia has "invaded" Ukraine. You repeat that western narrative frequently, despite that any competent, thorough and impartial investigation of the subject will clearly demonstrate that the western interpretation of events is "alternative facts," also known as "propaganda," better known as "a lie."
krzepice1976 wrote:you double standards.
I don't have double standards, sir. I don't trust any news source, nor do I trust Russia's story about the thirteen year old. I do however recognize that the German government has strategic reasons for covering up such a story, and consequently I would be a fool to trust Germany's narrative on the subject. Furthermore, we know that the alleged rape victim did claim to have been raped by a group of Arab men, where Germany imported 1.1 million refugees in 2015 alone. It's entirely plausible that she was raped by Middle Eastern refugees, and such a revelation would be harmful to Merkel and the CDU. As such, neither Merkel, nor her government are trustworthy sources. It's also clearly foolish to take the word of the government/police when asking the government/police whether or not they covered up a crime.
krzepice1976 wrote:RT do not show internal games inside Russia which has impact on world policy.
It mean basicly that RT shall be used only to see Russian goverment post of view (expectation).
Prior to 2008, Russia Today did concentrate on internal Russian matters, borrowing heavily from BBC's format. After Georgia, Russia Today went from attempting to educate western viewers about Russia in a very passive way, to waging an information war with the west, because the west was waging an information war with Russia. As I previously said, RT is indeed propaganda intended to manipulate western viewers into believing and behaving in a manner beneficial to Russia, but the same can be said for all major news outlets. Psychological Operations and propaganda are hardly unique to Russia.
krzepice1976 wrote:RT is seen by many nato contries as a information war tool.
Just as western Mainstream Media is. DPRK propaganda has convinced North Koreans that Americans are evil nomads whose diet consists mainly of snowballs, because Americans are so poor. You don't think you've been fooled by western propaganda into believing false narratives?
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. This regime has already used weapons of mass destruction against Iraq's neighbors and against Iraq's people. ... Under Resolutions 678 and 687 - both still in effect - the United States and our allies are authorized to use force in ridding Iraq of weapons of mass destruction"
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/mar/18/usa.iraq

"The Iranians may have an atom bomb within two years, the authoritative Jane's Defence Weekly warned. That was in 1984, two decades ago. Four years later, the world was again put on notice, this time by Iraq, that Tehran was at the nuclear threshold, and in 1992 the CIA foresaw atomic arms in Iranian hands by 2000. Then U.S. officials pushed that back to 2003. And in 1997 the Israelis confidently predicted a new date -- 2005. ... In fact, the latest estimate from the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies sees no Iranian bomb before the next decade. Israeli defense experts agree, speaking of a 2012 date."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... z4Y3LtshWP

"The Gulf of Tonkin ... also known as the USS Maddox incident, drew the US more directly into the Vietnam War ... In the 2003 documentary The Fog of War, the former United States Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara admitted that ... the August 4 Gulf of Tonkin attack never happened"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident
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Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:14 am

krzepice1976 wrote:Russia today is not credible source of information about Germany. Basicly they select some fact which match to their point of view.(apply to all west countries) RT is owned by Russian goverment, so basicly they present owner (Russian goverment )point of view.
It is RT standard you double standards.
RT do not show internal games inside Russia which has impact on world policy.
It mean basicly that RT shall be used only to see Russian goverment post of view (expectation).

Good example well played by russian disinformation is Opal pipeline. Important for Russia mix of policy and economy.
RT is seen by many nato contries as a information war tool.
I think you mistake sometimes when people quote RT they are taking them at face value. At least for myself and am sure others they are always taken as at very least a spin of truth.
They are alway considered promoting Russia's interest, but to discount all their reporting is not wise either.
I can think of very few news org on world scene who report completely objectively.
Consider Wash Post who is owned by Bezos of Amazon. Amazon won a contract with CIA in 2014 for I think 600mil to build a cloud data base. Is it right to assume their confidential CIA source reporting is with out ulterior motive?
Don't take this as discouragement of your Eurasia and European reporting though because you have some fast insights and sources. Just don't become frustrated with those who might give more credence to RT than you think is warranted.

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