Civil war in the USA

It affects every part of your life. Debate it here, but keep it civil
TonyG
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:16 pm

Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:03 am

I guess this a question for anybody who would like to answer. I am living north of the border in Canada. This is really the first time I have been following the US presidential election with more than a passing interest (especially because about two to five hours south of us there are 450 ICBM's either with bull-eyes on them or alternatively they will be passing through Canada/Arctic to destinations on the other side of the Pole). I am amazed at the amount of mud slinging going on and I know who I would vote for (I won't say of course). My two questions are as follows:

1) Is Hillary Clinton representative (i.e. similar) of previous Democrat nominees? Has this be evolving over time/decades or is it just her specific beliefs? Did Kennedy try really hard to not pull the trigger during the Cuban Missile Crisis or would he have gone all the way (sort of speak). I have seen the movie and documentaries but sometimes they don't tell the truth 100%.

2) Why does everybody say that if Hillary gets elected there will be a nuclear exchange? Is it Putin or Clinton or both that are pushing for war? I have been studying Putin a little bit as well and he really does seem to care for his country. Sometimes I think he wants war and sometimes I think he is a very sensible person. I honestly don't know what to think.

I am new here as well and I hope I am not crossing the line but what I wrote. I am trying to be very careful. I am just asking these questions out of interest. I would truly like to see peace but that does not mean that the USA has to give up its identity. If they did I couldn't imagine what would happen to Canada. While we do have some specific values/behaviours/beliefs, we are intricately linked and I am proud of it. I really don't want anything bad to happen.

DirtyDevil69
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Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:14 am

TonyG wrote:I guess this a question for anybody who would like to answer. I am living north of the border in Canada. This is really the first time I have been following the US presidential election with more than a passing interest (especially because about two to five hours south of us there are 450 ICBM's either with bull-eyes on them or alternatively they will be passing through Canada/Arctic to destinations on the other side of the Pole). I am amazed at the amount of mud slinging going on and I know who I would vote for (I won't say of course). My two questions are as follows:

1) Is Hillary Clinton representative (i.e. similar) of previous Democrat nominees? Has this be evolving over time/decades or is it just her specific beliefs? Did Kennedy try really hard to not pull the trigger during the Cuban Missile Crisis or would he have gone all the way (sort of speak). I have seen the movie and documentaries but sometimes they don't tell the truth 100%.

2) Why does everybody say that if Hillary gets elected there will be a nuclear exchange? Is it Putin or Clinton or both that are pushing for war? I have been studying Putin a little bit as well and he really does seem to care for his country. Sometimes I think he wants war and sometimes I think he is a very sensible person. I honestly don't know what to think.

I am new here as well and I hope I am not crossing the line but what I wrote. I am trying to be very careful. I am just asking these questions out of interest. I would truly like to see peace but that does not mean that the USA has to give up its identity. If they did I couldn't imagine what would happen to Canada. While we do have some specific values/behaviours/beliefs, we are intricately linked and I am proud of it. I really don't want anything bad to happen.
Theirs no such thing as a stupid question unless it comes from me.

Ill leave your questions to be answered by someone with a larger political aspect than mine.
The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.
~ General George S. Patton- WW2
Semper Fidelis (Always Faithful)
~ U.S. Marines

beanywalrus
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Posts: 100
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:19 am
Location: Oviedo, Florida / Seminole County

Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:19 am

TonyG wrote:I guess this a question for anybody who would like to answer. I am living north of the border in Canada. This is really the first time I have been following the US presidential election with more than a passing interest (especially because about two to five hours south of us there are 450 ICBM's either with bull-eyes on them or alternatively they will be passing through Canada/Arctic to destinations on the other side of the Pole). I am amazed at the amount of mud slinging going on and I know who I would vote for (I won't say of course). My two questions are as follows:

1) Is Hillary Clinton representative (i.e. similar) of previous Democrat nominees? Has this be evolving over time/decades or is it just her specific beliefs? Did Kennedy try really hard to not pull the trigger during the Cuban Missile Crisis or would he have gone all the way (sort of speak). I have seen the movie and documentaries but sometimes they don't tell the truth 100%.

2) Why does everybody say that if Hillary gets elected there will be a nuclear exchange? Is it Putin or Clinton or both that are pushing for war? I have been studying Putin a little bit as well and he really does seem to care for his country. Sometimes I think he wants war and sometimes I think he is a very sensible person. I honestly don't know what to think.

I am new here as well and I hope I am not crossing the line but what I wrote. I am trying to be very careful. I am just asking these questions out of interest. I would truly like to see peace but that does not mean that the USA has to give up its identity. If they did I couldn't imagine what would happen to Canada. While we do have some specific values/behaviours/beliefs, we are intricately linked and I am proud of it. I really don't want anything bad to happen.
The democratic and republican parties are two heads of the same coin. Donald Trump gained support because he was very anti-establishment republican (think Bush, McCain), and the party didn't dare refuse him. Hillary Clinton would be in jail if she didn't have the media in her pocket. In contrast to Kennedy, she is the total opposite of what he was. Now I won't delve into Kennedy assassination conpiracies because I'll probably be called a "tin foil hat troll," but they have many truths to them. I think he was a great American and the only democrat I'd ever vote for. Since then, both parties have shown themselves to be incompetent.

Putin and Hillary are two very different politicians with two very different backgrounds. One an anti-communist former KGB Russian while the other is a "flower child" that believes in open borders, open trade and a single world government. Putin is expanding due to American influence in Eastern Europe, and fear of invasion from the west, while Hillary and establishment politicians within the US, including foreign powers, continue to push Russia into a corner that they either have to bite back from or collapse, and a collapse is the last thing Putin would desire. That is where you'd hear the phrase "don't poke the bear" or something along the lines. The fear of the west is a very historical and real fear that has caused two invasions (both only stopped by the infamous Russian winter and military mistakes). You can't rely on an enemy to make mistakes nor a natural occurrence to stop them, not realistically. Stalin invoked a similar policy for the other countries of the Soviet Union to add as a buffer zone/meatshield between them and NATO.

The sad part of all this is though, that a war with Russia is not necessary. Of course if anyone shoots their nukes, expect a retaliation, but that's not the point. Russia is no longer a communist nation actively rooting for the destruction of the west; they have tried several times to cooperate with us against radical Islam, like the Boston bombers (Chechnyan brothers), and Syria itself. It's as if we are trying to work against them to instate a global agenda.
The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. -Thomas Jefferson

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Dixon
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Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:18 am
Location: Alberta Canada

Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:06 am

beanywalrus wrote: The sad part of all this is though, that a war with Russia is not necessary. Of course if anyone shoots their nukes, expect a retaliation, but that's not the point. Russia is no longer a communist nation actively rooting for the destruction of the west; they have tried several times to cooperate with us against radical Islam, like the Boston bombers (Chechnyan brothers), and Syria itself. It's as if we are trying to work against them to instate a global agenda.
Hillary I can't trust with shit, Trump though has every reason to keep doing business with the Russians, he won't just kill off the competition because where is the profit in that? I don't care if Trump gets taken advantage of during these dealings, I just don't want everyone to die. If Trump can keep his head up enough and not fall into a Russian trap we may have enough time to repopulate Americas military. Because to me that's all that matters, the current one is just a joke of privatized bullshit. American needs to become the real modern age power house again, but that takes time. With Trump we may have a little bit longer.
Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him?
- Blaise Pascal

TonyG
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Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:16 pm

Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:34 am

Wow! That was a very comprehensive answer that obviously took some time and thought. I really appreciate that. Especially since I am here to learn and as a Canadian, I will obviously be more familiar with Canadian politics rather than US politics. I do find it fascinating though. Everything I read in the news regarding HRC is consistent with what you are telling me and there is no reason to doubt that it is true considering what happened, or what didn't happen (refer to extra security requests being ignored and abandoning American personel during tbe attack). What I cannot understand is why the polls do not reflect basic American values. Maybe it is because they see HRC as the lesser of two evils (in their opinion), or that the polls do not reflect the reality or because the media and debate moderators, such as CNN, while being biased, are able to convince or pursuade the voters according to their agendas? Sorty for the run on sentences.

I also recently heard it isn't the general population that elects the President. It is based on delegates in each state. Are the number of delegates pro-rated based on population. And, do the delegates necessarily follow the wishes of the citizens? Are the senate and congress elected by the population then?

Fascinating stuff. I need to read more books on the US political system. It is very different than the Commonwealth countries.

beanywalrus
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Posts: 100
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:19 am
Location: Oviedo, Florida / Seminole County

Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:11 am

TonyG wrote:Wow! That was a very comprehensive answer that obviously took some time and thought. I really appreciate that. Especially since I am here to learn and as a Canadian, I will obviously be more familiar with Canadian politics rather than US politics. I do find it fascinating though. Everything I read in the news regarding HRC is consistent with what you are telling me and there is no reason to doubt that it is true considering what happened, or what didn't happen (refer to extra security requests being ignored and abandoning American personel during tbe attack). What I cannot understand is why the polls do not reflect basic American values. Maybe it is because they see HRC as the lesser of two evils (in their opinion), or that the polls do not reflect the reality or because the media and debate moderators, such as CNN, while being biased, are able to convince or pursuade the voters according to their agendas? Sorty for the run on sentences.

I also recently heard it isn't the general population that elects the President. It is based on delegates in each state. Are the number of delegates pro-rated based on population. And, do the delegates necessarily follow the wishes of the citizens? Are the senate and congress elected by the population then?

Fascinating stuff. I need to read more books on the US political system. It is very different than the Commonwealth countries.
Really, political polls have no real way of accurately predicting the race and are used to influence public opinion rather than reflect it. As a Trump voter the race is too close to call. Many people voting for her are doing it because she's a woman or because they don't like Trump.

Congress is divided into two parts; the House and the Senate, and the people do choose these(well, to a degree) The Presidential election is very different because even if you win the popular vote, the electoral college is the true decider. This is where the term red and blue states come in. Whoever wins the majority of the pop. vote within that state wins that state's electoral vote. Democrats usually win California and New York since they tend to be blue states(democrat), and Republicans usually win Texas, rural and southern states. Florida, Colorado and some others are considered swing states, meaning they can go any way. The electoral college itself is entirely based on the congressional seats the state is guaranteed. These electors then pledge their vote. California, for example, has 55, so Clinton is guaranteed to have 55 votes of the 270 required to win. These all add up with the other 49 states, making the electoral college of 578 electors.

Just realized a civil war thread has turned into a basic US Gov intro.
The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. -Thomas Jefferson

Oxcart138
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Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:53 pm

Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:06 pm

Its simple really. DEMS and GOP are Globalists .... 2 sides to the same coin with minor differences to appease tribal instincts.

Drump / Alt-right are Nationalists... they want a nation .

More and more people are seeing that the DEMS and GOP are the same. They want open boarders, war, and division....

Image

ThunderStealer
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Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:53 am

tornpie wrote:And queue the firehose:

https://sputniknews.com/radio_unanimous ... free-rein/

The Justice Department is reducing the number of federal election observers stationed at polling places around the country, despite heightened concerns about the integrity of the vote.
Our elections are fine. The Russians "may" have some influence but only in the area of exposing the Democrat Party tampering with our votes, thus, "the Russians are messing with our elections". We have DHS and probably the UN to ensure that Americans vote for America-last by voting for that Jezebel, Hillary.
"Rules of the day, if the car gets immobilized, start shooting. Nobody gets traded, everybody dies." - Body of Lies

"Sir, rules of engagement."
"We're already engaged" - Tears of the Sun

ThunderStealer
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Posts: 1133
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:01 am

Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:06 am

TonyG wrote:I guess this a question for anybody who would like to answer. I am living north of the border in Canada. This is really the first time I have been following the US presidential election with more than a passing interest (especially because about two to five hours south of us there are 450 ICBM's either with bull-eyes on them or alternatively they will be passing through Canada/Arctic to destinations on the other side of the Pole). I am amazed at the amount of mud slinging going on and I know who I would vote for (I won't say of course). My two questions are as follows:

1) Is Hillary Clinton representative (i.e. similar) of previous Democrat nominees? Has this be evolving over time/decades or is it just her specific beliefs? Did Kennedy try really hard to not pull the trigger during the Cuban Missile Crisis or would he have gone all the way (sort of speak). I have seen the movie and documentaries but sometimes they don't tell the truth 100%.

2) Why does everybody say that if Hillary gets elected there will be a nuclear exchange? Is it Putin or Clinton or both that are pushing for war? I have been studying Putin a little bit as well and he really does seem to care for his country. Sometimes I think he wants war and sometimes I think he is a very sensible person. I honestly don't know what to think.

I am new here as well and I hope I am not crossing the line but what I wrote. I am trying to be very careful. I am just asking these questions out of interest. I would truly like to see peace but that does not mean that the USA has to give up its identity. If they did I couldn't imagine what would happen to Canada. While we do have some specific values/behaviours/beliefs, we are intricately linked and I am proud of it. I really don't want anything bad to happen.
Hillary works for the CFR, not the US. Many politicians are on the CFR side. Between right-wing freedom fighters and left-wing totalitarian statists, no matter how they portray themselves they're on the CFR's rolls. To Hillary, the Presidency is a promotion and a pay raise. She can also create an environment that is unfriendly for guns, jobs, businesses, and Americans in general. Trump, doesn't need the job but he wants it to serve the people. He is not, however, in the CFR. Which explains his opposition from all sides, they're America-last. That being said, Hillary will force a nuclear war with the Russians. They have every right to defend themselves and their interests just like we do. But the CFR wants to run the world through a corporate technocracy of unelected bureaucrats, and Hillary's handlers can't have that. The idea that Trump is a Russian spy just because he doesn't want to immediately nuke all of them into ashes is absurd and a weak argument.

If that witch Hitlery does anything to this country, it'll be a civil war to justify Socialism/Fascism becoming every day life.
"Rules of the day, if the car gets immobilized, start shooting. Nobody gets traded, everybody dies." - Body of Lies

"Sir, rules of engagement."
"We're already engaged" - Tears of the Sun

ThunderStealer
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Posts: 1133
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:01 am

Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:16 am

Oxcart138 wrote: They want open boarders, war, and division....
They'll get what they want, and we'll get what they want. We'll suffer in the mud, they'll laugh from ivory towers. But at least we didn't vote for a nationalist, because that's "protectionism" and junk.
"Rules of the day, if the car gets immobilized, start shooting. Nobody gets traded, everybody dies." - Body of Lies

"Sir, rules of engagement."
"We're already engaged" - Tears of the Sun

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