Ukraine/Russia Situation Dec 6th

Reports on current military activity
Silent
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Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:14 pm

catalystman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:05 pm
Where does the hardware they use come from??? lol..Russia is supporting them so they can form an independent state....bwhahhaha ...yeah right....i like this question...I second the notion of reaching a conclusion on this one ....are we calling Russian backed separatists "Russian Military"... I think I'd personally be happier calling them terrorists...I mean they shot down a passenger jet and struck "terror" into the hearts of millions... They are clearly Terrorists...If the Ukraine go in hammer and Tongs, Russia will condemn it an unacceptable and heinous act and likely respond military...this is an open and shut case of "hybrid warfare" no? do we need to have this conversation? I feel no?
what do you smoke?

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RiffRaff
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Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:21 am

catalystman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:44 pm
Guest wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:56 pm
RiffRaff wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:14 am
Are we no longer trying to make a distinction between Russian-backed separatist forces and actual Russian military? Because it is an important distinction.
Please clarify "no longer trying to make a distinction between Russian-backed separatist forces and actual Russian military". Why is it an important distinction if there is not going to be a distinction.
Sarcasm perhaps...can we rule out Russian military definitively? I guess i would base a distinction off who is enabling and sustaining the separatist force... if Kaliningrad had been annexed by Ukraine would an occupying force eager for further territorial gains be regarded as Ukrainian Military...nah...Russia would label them Terrorists...
Rebels who are Ukrainian citizens fighting for independence or separation from the Ukrainian government and who are provided with assistance in the form of weapons and information from Russia is primarily an internal Ukrainian matter.

Russian troops fighting Ukrainian troops on Ukrainian soil is an invasion of a sovereign nation by a foreign power that pledged to honor and protect that nation's borders.

I would say that is an important distinction to make when trying to analyze the situation and deciding who the "bad guys" are.
"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." - Terminator 2: Judgment Day

catalystman
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:35 am

Silent wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:14 pm
catalystman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:05 pm
Where does the hardware they use come from??? lol..Russia is supporting them so they can form an independent state....bwhahhaha ...yeah right....i like this question...I second the notion of reaching a conclusion on this one ....are we calling Russian backed separatists "Russian Military"... I think I'd personally be happier calling them terrorists...I mean they shot down a passenger jet and struck "terror" into the hearts of millions... They are clearly Terrorists...If the Ukraine go in hammer and Tongs, Russia will condemn it an unacceptable and heinous act and likely respond military...this is an open and shut case of "hybrid warfare" no? do we need to have this conversation? I feel no?
what do you smoke?
:P

catalystman
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:00 am

RiffRaff wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:21 am
catalystman wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:44 pm
Guest wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:56 pm


Please clarify "no longer trying to make a distinction between Russian-backed separatist forces and actual Russian military". Why is it an important distinction if there is not going to be a distinction.
Sarcasm perhaps...can we rule out Russian military definitively? I guess i would base a distinction off who is enabling and sustaining the separatist force... if Kaliningrad had been annexed by Ukraine would an occupying force eager for further territorial gains be regarded as Ukrainian Military...nah...Russia would label them Terrorists...
Rebels who are Ukrainian citizens fighting for independence or separation from the Ukrainian government and who are provided with assistance in the form of weapons and information from Russia is primarily an internal Ukrainian matter.

Russian troops fighting Ukrainian troops on Ukrainian soil is an invasion of a sovereign nation by a foreign power that pledged to honor and protect that nation's borders.

I would say that is an important distinction to make when trying to analyze the situation and deciding who the "bad guys" are.
It becomes a broader issue when the "independently thinking/acting/motivated rebels" :lol: are seeking alignment with a country who have made and seek further territorial gain over many bordering countries"...

Again i would say that the need for this conversation only confirms that well-formed hybrid-proxy warfare is in play.

The geographical reality and political events lay the whole story in plain vision.

I know many of you are respectfully well informed, but this conversation is honestly concerning.

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RiffRaff
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:51 am

This conversation started due to Drumboy posting links referring to "Russian occupation forces" and "Russian forces" operating in and opening fire from Ukrainian territory. We know that there are both Russian-backed separatists and regular Russian military operating in the self-declared People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, but the numbers run anywhere from 15% to 80% of the combatants being comprised of Russian citizens and former Russian military, depending on who you talk to. I agree with your statement that we are dealing with a well-formed hybrid-proxy war, but the "whole story" is hardly "laid out in plain vision." You can't claim the complexities of a hybrid-proxy war in one sentence and claim the simplicity of a cut and dry situation in the next. Those two concepts are generally not compatible.

Both Presidents Putin and Poroshenko can and have used the situation in the Donbass region to their political advantage, and neither of them is exactly a prime example of truth and trustworthiness. Add to that the American media is pretty much ignoring the conflict in Ukraine and practically every tidbit of intel we receive from the area has to be taken with a grain of salt and independently verified.

So when I ask about distinguishing between two forces operating in the combat zone, I'm trying to clarify between the actions of an internal anti-government movement and the actions of an occupation/invasion force. And maybe it's to the point where that distinction can no longer be made. But I don't think it's an unreasonable question to ask.
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Drumboy44
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Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:56 am

Complexes S-300 "Favorite" went to the border with Ukraine

The combat crews of the S-300 Favorit anti-aircraft missile systems, which are located on the territory of the Rostov Region, were ordered to protect the region’s airspace, including the coast of the Sea of ​​Azov, under protection. This was January 11 reported in the press service of the Southern Military District (SKR).

As part of the fulfillment of the order, the military anti-aircraft regiment of the Southern Military District (SST) began transporting S-300 complexes to the area adjacent to the Ukrainian border, and also began monitoring and maintaining air targets.

Recall that in December 2018, anti-aircraft gunners of the Southern Military District conducted exercises in the Rostov region to repel cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles.

We also note that at the end of November, the S-400 anti-aircraft missile system division was deployed in the Crimea, 20 km from the border with Ukraine.

After the Ukrainian provocation in the Azov Sea in the region, the US and NATO military strengthened their presence. For example, in December 2018, the reconnaissance ship of the British Navy arrived in Odessa, and on January 9, 2019 the monitoring resource PlaneRadar reported a flight along the Crimean coast of the American electronic reconnaissance aircraft Boeing RC-135V.

Russia is responding by pushing reconnaissance and defense complexes to the region and conducting relevant exercises.
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https://rossaprimavera.ru/news/4cee262b
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