Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

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Expand view Topic review: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by TheArtist » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:24 pm

Encyclopath wrote:If we dump turkey from NATO now, regardless of their judgement today, what kind of precendent will that set and how will affect the perception of NATOs commitment to fufill its core mission?
Dropping them from the alliance out of fear of impending hostilities would send a disasterous statement,
I can imagine a situation next year with Russia encroaching on Estonia after some imagined or constructed slight, expecting them to be disowned by NATO by the time they reach the border.

We need to deal with Turkey's behaviour for sure, but more along the lines of a trip to the woodshed, not kicking them out of the house. That also means confronting Russia and demanding ahalt to attacks against non ISIS aligned ethnic Turkmen in Syria.

Turkey should be dealt with behind closed doors. Kicking them out is a rather silly idea and would show that NATO might not come to the aid of their members.

Also, asking Russia to halt attacks on anything inside Syria is rather silly as well. Syria is an ally of Russia and Assad's "regime" was one of the most tolerant in the region. I find it odd that people in the US support the ousting of a government and leader that had some of the most liberal and secular societies. Women went to college there, held high level positions, didn't have to wear head gear, Christians were an accepted segment of the population and not harassed. But nope, we believe the chemical weapons attack story the United Nations report showed he probably didn't do. The only people saying Assad used the weapons are the same people that want him out.

Our desire to overthrow yet another government is disgusting, especially when compared to our support of Qatar and KSA. I mean Iran is more "westernized" than Saudi Arabia.

Russia is simply doing what it should do, defend an ally. We just happen to disagree with that and want to see Syria turned into a pile of rubble.

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by Encyclopath » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:44 am

If we dump turkey from NATO now, regardless of their judgement today, what kind of precendent will that set and how will affect the perception of NATOs commitment to fufill its core mission?
Dropping them from the alliance out of fear of impending hostilities would send a disasterous statement,
I can imagine a situation next year with Russia encroaching on Estonia after some imagined or constructed slight, expecting them to be disowned by NATO by the time they reach the border.

We need to deal with Turkey's behaviour for sure, but more along the lines of a trip to the woodshed, not kicking them out of the house. That also means confronting Russia and demanding ahalt to attacks against non ISIS aligned ethnic Turkmen in Syria.

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by ThunderStealer » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:46 pm

ItalianSteel wrote:On vacation in Asia, but couldn't help myself to check if anything happened -- and this?! Wonderful...

Like many, I'm hardly surprised but still quite disappointed. I completely agree Turkey needs a serious attitude adjustment, as they are a huge liability in this conflict.

The fact that Turkey continues to help ISIS rather than combat them while remaining "fully committed" to NATO allies is a complete farce. A dreadful attacks occurs in Paris and several alerts throughout the EU and Germany, yet Turkey still acts as a safe haven for ISIS to cross over into.

I'm starting to think Turkey will be the hotspot for WWIII because NATO refuses to do anything about their contradictory stance, yet continues to use them as a quasi forward operating base. Russia can only take this so long and it seems that timeline is just about to get shortened.

Will be interesting to see what follows. All I can say is *if* it was rebels given AA by the US, it's going to go sour in a real hurry.
Turkey to ISIS is what Pakistan is to the Taliban. The only thing we get out of their alliance is airspace when we need it. Other than that, yeah, we need to flush 'em, the sooner the better.

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by ThunderStealer » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:39 pm

Oswald wrote:Aircraft in question likely an SU-24MR E or F model Reconnaissance aircraft.

The Su-24MR Fencer-E is a tactical reconnaissance aircraft that can be identified by its dielectic panels in a slightly shortened nose. The basic reconnaissance package is the BKR-1 Bortovoy Kompleks Razvedki (Onboard Reconnaissance Complex) which incorporates the Shtyk (Bayonet) SLAR and a Zima (Winter) imaging infrared reconnaissance system in the nose. In addition, the aircraft frequently carries various combinations of the Aist-M (Stork) TV reconnaissance pack, the AP-402 and A-100 'wet-film cameras, the Ehfir-1M (Ether) radiation monitoring system, the Shpil'-2M (Steeple) laser line-scan unit and the Tangazh (Pitch) ELINT system in external pods. Using an on-board wide-band radio channel the aircraft can transmit data from some sensors in near real time to dedicated ground stations. In addition, the camera pods can also develop film in-flight, which can then be dropped inside a special canister to a ground based command post or mobile Reconnaissance Intelligence Cell (RIC). Around 100 aircraft are currently in service with Russia, how many of the exported Fencers remain serviceable is very debateable, but probably only a handful in each country at any one time.

The Su-24MP Fencer-F was designed as a dedicated ECM aircraft, which can also gather ELINT and SIGINT. The aircraft is very similar in appearance to the Fencer-E but can be distinguished by a prominent undernose fairing and a number of swept-back 'hockey stick' antennas mounted near the intakes. Only around 20 aircraft were built and the majority remain in service.

http://www.16va.be/3.4_la_reco_part3_eng.html

If its an E then Russia was looking for timely information on conditions near the border, which
would c\suggest a buildup of some kind- or Russia believing there to be and banking on NATO's weak resolve to ignore their flights The less likely F model in this case because ELINT and SIGINT can just as easily be sampled on the Syrian side of the border. Repeated border penetration reports means they weren't straying accidentally.
Watching it this morning, I figured this was a recon flight that got shot down. Thanks for clarifying.

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by DirtyDevil69 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:07 pm

Luke wrote:Sorry for the silly question.. but what is an EAM?
Its not really something you want to hear in rapid succession, especially after something like this just happened with the russian jet being shot down.

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by matty1053 » Tue Nov 24, 2015 10:45 pm

JohnStone wrote:I think this has happened before, but this time it happened too fast to be covered up. It may be more real this time since it resulted in death of Russian pilots. I understand the pilots were shot after ejecting.
Last time this type of event happened was in the 1950s iirc.

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by JohnStone » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:53 pm

I think this has happened before, but this time it happened too fast to be covered up. It may be more real this time since it resulted in death of Russian pilots. I understand the pilots were shot after ejecting.

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by Luke » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:30 pm

Ryan wrote:
Luke wrote:
Ryan wrote:
Emergency Action Message.
Thanks Ryan.

Beensome stuff on 8chan about SKYKING today. Have you guys been listening in on the radio channels today??
Oh yes of course.
Awesome. Is there a thread on this? Any major news?

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by Luke » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:26 pm

Ryan wrote:
Luke wrote:Sorry for the silly question.. but what is an EAM?
Emergency Action Message.
Thanks Ryan.

Beensome stuff on 8chan about SKYKING today. Have you guys been listening in on the radio channels today??

Re: Warplane Crashes in Syria near Turkish Border

by Luke » Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:16 pm

Sorry for the silly question.. but what is an EAM?

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