Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

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Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Navarro » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:57 am

"Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said on Thursday that the whole world benefited from a strong European Union and that the bloc and his country needed to lead the international economy ... marked his distance from both the United States ... and from Britain ... 'we must choose to lead the international economy' ... signalled Canada's distance from both its big neighbour to the south under Trump and from London ... 'this is an important moment for us'"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canad ... 5V15Y?il=0

The EU is indeed becoming a competitor against the United States.
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Re: Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Wats0ns_Crick » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:19 pm

Navarro wrote:"Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said on Thursday that the whole world benefited from a strong European Union and that the bloc and his country needed to lead the international economy ... marked his distance from both the United States ... and from Britain ... 'we must choose to lead the international economy' ... signalled Canada's distance from both its big neighbour to the south under Trump and from London ... 'this is an important moment for us'"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-canad ... 5V15Y?il=0

The EU is indeed becoming a competitor against the United States.


If this allegiance to the EU persists, 50 years from now should be fascinating. The EU is forming its army gradually, and I'm sure it has aspirations to be equivalent to modern superpowers.

Why this may be interesting 20-50 years from now, is I'm sure the US will be globally competing militarily with them, and I can see extreme tensions when they move missile defenses and bases near our border with Canada.

Could happen. Just wait until they start funding proxy wars with the US over energy, resources, or trade, haha. You can call me crazy but it will be a certainty within 100 years as the EU advances its military goals. I have no problem with them wanting to form one, but we all know economies and society are not monolithic. I wonder what the Islamic influence will be like politically in Europe 50 years from now? Buckle up for a crazy chess game with the addition of another superpower with the potential to be muslim majority in 50-100 years. Wew.

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Re: Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Navarro » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:36 am

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:If this allegiance to the EU persists, 50 years from now should be fascinating. The EU is forming its army gradually, and I'm sure it has aspirations to be equivalent to modern superpowers.

Agreed. There's already considerable talk about the disintegration of NATO. We've seen much discussion of the subject recently, but this isn't a new topic. Long before Trump came along, Germany and other EU states were pushing for a unified European Army. UK adamantly opposed this prior to Brexit, announcing its intention to remain loyal to NATO. Meanwhile, work toward the European Army has progressed, with Germany continuing to integrate foreign military elements with its Bundeswehr. Today Europe is incapable of competing militarily with the United States, but as EU progresses toward independence from America, toward European unification under Berlin, and in its unique foreign policy objectives, this is likely to change. Berlin, in truth, is already capable of becoming a superpower on its own, given its industrial and economic strength.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Why this may be interesting 20-50 years from now, is I'm sure the US will be globally competing militarily with them, and I can see extreme tensions when they move missile defenses and bases near our border with Canada.

I'm not sure that EU would ever position strong military forces in Canada. In the 1930s the UK, a superpower at that time, assessed that a confrontation with the United States would lead to the inevitable fall of Canada. UK could delay Canada's fall, at immense cost, but it couldn't prevent it. As such, UK concluded that in the event of such a conflict, they would allow Canada to be conquered by America. The EU will likely arrive at similar conclusions, and so it won't position the military forces and equipment necessary to stand against America, in Canada.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Could happen. Just wait until they start funding proxy wars with the US over energy, resources, or trade, haha. You can call me crazy but it will be a certainty within 100 years as the EU advances its military goals.

Yes that's possible. A lot can change in 100 years. One-hundred years ago, WWI had just concluded. One would have been hard-pressed in that time to predict the world today in an accurate and detailed manner. A lot would have to change, certainly. Europe has no long-range bombers, no strategic bombers, its military is very small relative to the United States, no European power has recent experience leading a war, but these and the myriad other complications can certainly change over a 100 year span, especially given that things like strategic bombers and aircraft carriers are likely to be obsolete by that time, replaced by far cheaper counterparts. Very Long Range Missiles, Unmanned Heavy Bombers, Rail Gun Battleships, and so forth. America's been dragging its feet on these things for decades, confident in its superiority, so EU should be theoretically capable of developing the future's war-fighting technologies very rapidly, if sufficiently motivated.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:I have no problem with them wanting to form one, but we all know economies and society are not monolithic.

I don't think most people recognize this. The average person sees the world though a very small timescale. The idea of America someday becoming Cold War adversaries with Germany's EU likely seems absurd to most, yet in the previous century the United States fought the Germans twice in war. As I earlier remarked, shortly prior to WWII, US and UK were contemplative of war against one another. Another war against one another, that is, given US and UK have already fought several wars. Just a few decades ago China was our ally, and so war Russia, where Japan, Germany, Italy and much of Europe was our enemy. Most people reading this probably think "that's ancient history, it has no relevance today." History has a tendency to repeated itself. It does repeat itself, over and over again.
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Re: Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Reginald_Johnson » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:58 am

that is fine but we need to cut them off completely militarily and start treating them like a competitor economically.

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Re: Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Wats0ns_Crick » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:33 am

Navarro wrote:
Wats0ns_Crick wrote:If this allegiance to the EU persists, 50 years from now should be fascinating. The EU is forming its army gradually, and I'm sure it has aspirations to be equivalent to modern superpowers.

Agreed. There's already considerable talk about the disintegration of NATO. We've seen much discussion of the subject recently, but this isn't a new topic. Long before Trump came along, Germany and other EU states were pushing for a unified European Army. UK adamantly opposed this prior to Brexit, announcing its intention to remain loyal to NATO. Meanwhile, work toward the European Army has progressed, with Germany continuing to integrate foreign military elements with its Bundeswehr. Today Europe is incapable of competing militarily with the United States, but as EU progresses toward independence from America, toward European unification under Berlin, and in its unique foreign policy objectives, this is likely to change. Berlin, in truth, is already capable of becoming a superpower on its own, given its industrial and economic strength.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Why this may be interesting 20-50 years from now, is I'm sure the US will be globally competing militarily with them, and I can see extreme tensions when they move missile defenses and bases near our border with Canada.

I'm not sure that EU would ever position strong military forces in Canada. In the 1930s the UK, a superpower at that time, assessed that a confrontation with the United States would lead to the inevitable fall of Canada. UK could delay Canada's fall, at immense cost, but it couldn't prevent it. As such, UK concluded that in the event of such a conflict, they would allow Canada to be conquered by America. The EU will likely arrive at similar conclusions, and so it won't position the military forces and equipment necessary to stand against America, in Canada.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Could happen. Just wait until they start funding proxy wars with the US over energy, resources, or trade, haha. You can call me crazy but it will be a certainty within 100 years as the EU advances its military goals.

Yes that's possible. A lot can change in 100 years. One-hundred years ago, WWI had just concluded. One would have been hard-pressed in that time to predict the world today in an accurate and detailed manner. A lot would have to change, certainly. Europe has no long-range bombers, no strategic bombers, its military is very small relative to the United States, no European power has recent experience leading a war, but these and the myriad other complications can certainly change over a 100 year span, especially given that things like strategic bombers and aircraft carriers are likely to be obsolete by that time, replaced by far cheaper counterparts. Very Long Range Missiles, Unmanned Heavy Bombers, Rail Gun Battleships, and so forth. America's been dragging its feet on these things for decades, confident in its superiority, so EU should be theoretically capable of developing the future's war-fighting technologies very rapidly, if sufficiently motivated.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:I have no problem with them wanting to form one, but we all know economies and society are not monolithic.

I don't think most people recognize this. The average person sees the world though a very small timescale. The idea of America someday becoming Cold War adversaries with Germany's EU likely seems absurd to most, yet in the previous century the United States fought the Germans twice in war. As I earlier remarked, shortly prior to WWII, US and UK were contemplative of war against one another. Another war against one another, that is, given US and UK have already fought several wars. Just a few decades ago China was our ally, and so war Russia, where Japan, Germany, Italy and much of Europe was our enemy. Most people reading this probably think "that's ancient history, it has no relevance today." History has a tendency to repeated itself. It does repeat itself, over and over again.


Canada seems very eager to reflect all that embodies EU policy. The only reason why I feel they aren't more outspoken against US policy is due to their distance from the Europe and US military dependence. This is not to suggest we don't depend on their sovereignty for our well being and border proximity as well. However, ideologically, we are currently on radically different trajectories. Their military is not at a sufficient scale to be completely independent, not to say their soldiers aren't any good, but their numbers aren't up to snuff. What makes the US such a military quagmire is its geographical position, from a homeland defensive strategy perspective.

If the Brexit fails and the UK gets worked over by the EU and repents, I can see that propelling Canada to become a distant twin of the EU. We all know the US will see most of anything coming and try to prevent it, but considering the efficiency and evolution of propaganda and rapid increase in frequency of information accessible to the public, we are figuratively drinking propaganda from a fire hose at this point. As that system gets more efficient, someone will exploit it. We are in a wild west, so governments are still trying to adjust from the increase in unregulated flow of information.

It's going to be interesting. I'm not going to lie when I say I find the future of the US troubling, considering many educated generations, even my own current generation seems 50/50 on advocating doing away with the US flag, claiming the flag represents hate, racism, and misogyny as well as deeming the constitution as something written by racist white men (I made the mistake of going to a liberal college). So I see where this can lead.

I'm just going to try and enjoy the ride and watch this technological age and modern invention interact with primate genetics and observe it like a nature show. Let's hope the future leadership uses it responsibly or that there is a huge resurgence of constitutional rights and state independence, however, I'm not holding my breath. I don't think people realise that state rights are the glue that hold a massive union together...perhaps a different topic for another time.

Fascinating times, I tell ya.

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Re: Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Navarro » Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:24 pm

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:However, ideologically, we are currently on radically different trajectories.

Which is an existential threat to Canada, though it doesn't appear that Trudeau fully understands and appreciates that.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Their military is not at a sufficient scale to be completely independent, not to say their soldiers aren't any good, but their numbers aren't up to snuff.

It's much worse than that. Based on what I've seen, it appears that the Canadian military is purchasing new equipment at several times the actual value of that equipment. "Irregular defense contracts" as those are common throughout the world. However, bribery and opportunism leading to military procurement corruption can be devastating when a nation is setting itself up to be an adversary of its next-door neighbor. This is especially true when that neighbor is a highly aggressive superpower that invades and otherwise "intervenes" against other nations regularly. Canada needs high quality equipment at a low cost if it hopes to survive such competition with the United States, but it's receiving the opposite. To better put the situation into perspective: Canada needs to increase its military budget to about 25% of GDP and to negotiate excellent deals on all of its contracts, and to pursue asymmetry, deterrence and novel technological advancement. However, Canada is spending about 1% of GDP on its military, and its defense contracts are atrocious, while showing no evidence of developing an asymmetric strategy or novel technological pursuits. Canada can't compete with the United States, but it's chosen a path of conflict with America regardless.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:We all know the US will see most of anything coming and try to prevent it, but considering the efficiency and evolution of propaganda and rapid increase in frequency of information accessible to the public, we are figuratively drinking propaganda from a fire hose at this point. As that system gets more efficient, someone will exploit it. We are in a wild west, so governments are still trying to adjust from the increase in unregulated flow of information.

You are precisely correct. The world will change dramatically as a result, and the future is very much uncertain because of that. I personally perceive a future world where there are myriad ideologues, and two new breeds of oligarchy. One breed will enjoy an artificially enhanced memory and intelligence, leaving the classic oligarchs uncompetitive given a severe differential in intellectual capability. Technology has already progressed much nearer to enabling this than most realize. The second breed are what I call "hardened intellectuals." This is a group strongly effected by the circumstances which you remarked upon. In the past, a person who wasn't indoctrinated through the education system was likely to be uneducated, and thus bereft of intelligence. It's been said that the average computer owner today has approximately the same information gathering capability of the NSA of the eighties. No longer must someone be conditioned by the education system and memorize what their instructors tell them, accepting it unthinkingly as truth. Today one can effectively self-educate, learning without being conditioned, verifying instead of blindly accepting, developing abstract reasoning skills over simple memorization of words. Russia is taking advantage of this, and setting the stage. The United States doesn't "get it" yet.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:I made the mistake of going to a liberal college). So I see where this can lead.

Indeed, the west is still investing almost wholly in the traditional systems of education and mainstream media. If this trend isn't soon addressed, the order will be at a great disadvantage in the long-term. The traditionally educated members of the population will become unthinking ideologues, who will come to fill the government's ranks, will so fully lack the capacity for critical thinking, or original thought, that they will be unable to understand the methods of their employer's enemies. They will be ineffective, just as the classically educated breed entering those ranks today are already marginally effective at best. Meanwhile, they'll also be unable to compete with the hardened intellectuals rising to challenge them. There's relatively obvious countermeasures which could be undertaken now, but they're clearly not being pursued.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:I'm just going to try and enjoy the ride and watch this technological age and modern invention interact with primate genetics and observe it like a nature show.

You sound like a fan of George Carlin. Anyway, I haven't invested in either side yet, as neither is presently advantageous to me, and as I tend to bet only on sure things, but I do hope the show is entertaining.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Fascinating times, I tell ya.

Perhaps, but there have been similarly interesting times in the past. I liken the present situation to Medieval Europe's Peasant Revolts. The solution was both simple and obvious then, but the eventual victors were slow to recognize that solution. Today is similar, though I'm not convinced that recognition of the actual problem and actual situation will come soon enough to prevent the order's collapse, if the order will fully recognize the problem and solution at all. Myriad critical blunders are continuing to be made.
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Re: Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Wats0ns_Crick » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:36 pm

Navarro wrote:
Wats0ns_Crick wrote:However, ideologically, we are currently on radically different trajectories.

Which is an existential threat to Canada, though it doesn't appear that Trudeau fully understands and appreciates that.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Their military is not at a sufficient scale to be completely independent, not to say their soldiers aren't any good, but their numbers aren't up to snuff.

It's much worse than that. Based on what I've seen, it appears that the Canadian military is purchasing new equipment at several times the actual value of that equipment. "Irregular defense contracts" as those are common throughout the world. However, bribery and opportunism leading to military procurement corruption can be devastating when a nation is setting itself up to be an adversary of its next-door neighbor. This is especially true when that neighbor is a highly aggressive superpower that invades and otherwise "intervenes" against other nations regularly. Canada needs high quality equipment at a low cost if it hopes to survive such competition with the United States, but it's receiving the opposite. To better put the situation into perspective: Canada needs to increase its military budget to about 25% of GDP and to negotiate excellent deals on all of its contracts, and to pursue asymmetry, deterrence and novel technological advancement. However, Canada is spending about 1% of GDP on its military, and its defense contracts are atrocious, while showing no evidence of developing an asymmetric strategy or novel technological pursuits. Canada can't compete with the United States, but it's chosen a path of conflict with America regardless.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:We all know the US will see most of anything coming and try to prevent it, but considering the efficiency and evolution of propaganda and rapid increase in frequency of information accessible to the public, we are figuratively drinking propaganda from a fire hose at this point. As that system gets more efficient, someone will exploit it. We are in a wild west, so governments are still trying to adjust from the increase in unregulated flow of information.

You are precisely correct. The world will change dramatically as a result, and the future is very much uncertain because of that. I personally perceive a future world where there are myriad ideologues, and two new breeds of oligarchy. One breed will enjoy an artificially enhanced memory and intelligence, leaving the classic oligarchs uncompetitive given a severe differential in intellectual capability. Technology has already progressed much nearer to enabling this than most realize. The second breed are what I call "hardened intellectuals." This is a group strongly effected by the circumstances which you remarked upon. In the past, a person who wasn't indoctrinated through the education system was likely to be uneducated, and thus bereft of intelligence. It's been said that the average computer owner today has approximately the same information gathering capability of the NSA of the eighties. No longer must someone be conditioned by the education system and memorize what their instructors tell them, accepting it unthinkingly as truth. Today one can effectively self-educate, learning without being conditioned, verifying instead of blindly accepting, developing abstract reasoning skills over simple memorization of words. Russia is taking advantage of this, and setting the stage. The United States doesn't "get it" yet.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:I made the mistake of going to a liberal college). So I see where this can lead.

Indeed, the west is still investing almost wholly in the traditional systems of education and mainstream media. If this trend isn't soon addressed, the order will be at a great disadvantage in the long-term. The traditionally educated members of the population will become unthinking ideologues, who will come to fill the government's ranks, will so fully lack the capacity for critical thinking, or original thought, that they will be unable to understand the methods of their employer's enemies. They will be ineffective, just as the classically educated breed entering those ranks today are already marginally effective at best. Meanwhile, they'll also be unable to compete with the hardened intellectuals rising to challenge them. There's relatively obvious countermeasures which could be undertaken now, but they're clearly not being pursued.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:I'm just going to try and enjoy the ride and watch this technological age and modern invention interact with primate genetics and observe it like a nature show.

You sound like a fan of George Carlin. Anyway, I haven't invested in either side yet, as neither is presently advantageous to me, and as I tend to bet only on sure things, but I do hope the show is entertaining.

Wats0ns_Crick wrote:Fascinating times, I tell ya.

Perhaps, but there have been similarly interesting times in the past. I liken the present situation to Medieval Europe's Peasant Revolts. The solution was both simple and obvious then, but the eventual victors were slow to recognize that solution. Today is similar, though I'm not convinced that recognition of the actual problem and actual situation will come soon enough to prevent the order's collapse, if the order will fully recognize the problem and solution at all. Myriad critical blunders are continuing to be made.


You are correct, one can self educate, but I think there is a genetic component to critically think. Like a chip that's missing in many people. You can be very intelligent on paper and highly obedient to immorality ordered by leadership. Like the Nazis, Japanese (Nanking), etc... I'd go so far as to say much of Asia is ripe with both intelligence and blind obedience, today, despite easy access to information.

The problem with self education and not jumping through the hoops of the system is that the system built in a fail-safe (knowingly or not) to favor those that that jumped through them. Those that didn't are considered uneducated dropouts. You can't wash dishes without a high school diploma, anymore.

I've noticed highly educated people get caught up in mob mentality just like the uneducated. Technology seems to play to both mob mentality and group think, when you'd think it should do the opposite. This makes it effortless to organize a mob, and there is no rationale or reasoning with a mob.

As for investing in a side, don't. There are no sure bets, just ask Hillary Clinton. The only consistencies are inconsistencies. Choosing sides boxes you in and leaves you with less options. Continously adapting is superior to choosing which herd to follow off a cliff. I tend to use both, and find my own exploits. I'm no centrist either.

I'm guessing they will restrict flow of information with filters, licensing fees, and other hoops to contain it at some point, as some nations have done. It's not the right move, but given people being driven by hysteria and emotion, this makes them easy to manipulate and exploited by any seasoned politician or PR group. They will eagerly throw away their freedoms for any perceived solution to their crisis, so long as the mob says it's good.

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Re: Canada Distances Self from US/UK, Signals Allegiance to EU, Says Canada/EU to Lead World Economy

Postby Obreid » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:43 pm

Regarding "self education", it takes to much energy to sort through enough need to get the bigger picture. That is why people don't try to do it. Their entertained with the bells and whistles so why bother.
Just like entitlements they don't want to work for knowledge, and you do have to work for it. You have to sort the crap from the truth and often times connect the dots on your own.
Secondly anyone who tries to do this is labeled quickly by family and freinds as a conspearousy nut. So their you go we just end up talking to our selves and the mob sleeps or protest.
I am going through a sceptic phase right now and I do not believe the paths can be changed and when the deplorable fold then their will be real controls in the Internet to make sure a populist never floats to the top again.


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