Sweden nato

Reports on political activity with strategic consequences.
krzepice1976
Regular contributor
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:39 pm
Location: europe

Sweden nato

Postby krzepice1976 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:40 pm

Two-thirds of Swedes do not trust that Sweden can defend its borders and a majority wants to increase defense appropriations. Four of ten Swedes believe that Russia threatens Sweden and as many welcomes NATO. It shows a new DN / Ipsos survey
On Sunday begins Society and Defence's annual national conference in Salen with speeches by Prime Minister Stefan Löfven (S). In three days, 300 defense politicians and representatives of a number of agencies and CSOs to discuss current issues.

But the Swedish people and defense policy is a deepening confidence gap, shows the DN / Ipsos survey conducted 1-12 December of 1023 voters deltagare.Rysslands annexation of the Crimea in 2014 led to five of the political parties in 2015 made up about increasing defense spending . But despite the decision of Parliament "to strengthen the Swedish defense capability" doubt nowadays more and more Swedes that defense can handle the task.
Fundamental to the NATO debate is how Sweden's security would be affected by the entry. DN / Ipsos therefore asked: "Do you think the Swedish NATO membership would improve or worsen Sweden's security?" Every third Swedish (33 percent) responded that security would be better. A smaller proportion, 17 percent, believe that security would deteriorate. A quarter (25 percent) believe that it is not affected and as many are uncertain.

- The most interesting result is that seven out of ten voters have a positive or neutral attitude to NATO. However, only three out of ten believe that the Swedish NATO membership would improve Sweden's security. The major challenge for NATO proponents is to convince more about Sweden's security would be improved, says David Andersson.

A common argument in the NATO debate is Russia's actions. To the question "Do you think that Russia constitutes a small or big threat to Sweden's security"? responds four in ten (39 percent) that Russia is a threat. One in four (25 percent) do not see Russia as a threat. A majority of NATO followers, 53 percent, responded that Russia poses a threat. It is an attitude that is half as common in NATO opponents, 27 percent.
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/dnipsos

User avatar
ThunderStealer
Regular contributor
Posts: 828
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:01 am

Re: Sweden nato

Postby ThunderStealer » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:53 pm

Sweden has become the poster child for the refugee rape crisis. When they considered NATO membership last year the Russians threatened them with retaliation as they roll out the heavy hardware, and then in typical Russian fashion, "that wasn't a threat....just you know....something we say".

If I were Swedish, I'd be greatly concerned, and although NATO membership doesn't guarantee a quiet nights sleep, it'd help them sleep a little more soundly at night.
"Rules of the day, if the car gets immobilized, start shooting. Nobody gets traded, everybody dies." - Body of Lies

User avatar
RiffRaff
.
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:09 pm
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, US

Re: Sweden nato

Postby RiffRaff » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:07 am

ThunderStealer wrote:Sweden has become the poster child for the refugee rape crisis. When they considered NATO membership last year the Russians threatened them with retaliation as they roll out the heavy hardware, and then in typical Russian fashion, "that wasn't a threat....just you know....something we say".

If I were Swedish, I'd be greatly concerned, and although NATO membership doesn't guarantee a quiet nights sleep, it'd help them sleep a little more soundly at night.


Might help them sleep more soundly at night. Me, not so much. The further we expand NATO, the larger the chances of us getting involved in an armed conflict with Russia. They already think of NATO as a direct threat to their sovereignty. Adding more countries, especially border countries, isn't going to make Russians sleep more soundly at night either.
"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." - Terminator 2: Judgment Day

User avatar
Navarro
DWS Staff
DWS Staff
Posts: 2010
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:01 am

Re: Sweden nato

Postby Navarro » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:50 am

ThunderStealer wrote:When they considered NATO membership last year the Russians threatened them with retaliation as they roll out the heavy hardware, and then in typical Russian fashion, "that wasn't a threat....just you know....something we say".

Threat or not, it's a point of logic. Sweden is very large, sparsely populated and doesn't possess any strategic resources in large enough quantity to be worth capturing, from Russia's perspective. It would then require a large effort to conquer Sweden, with little to gain in return. What's more: Sweden doesn't share a land border with Russia, further reducing Russia's inclination to act militarily against it. However, by aligning with NATO, Sweden becomes a target for the simple fact that "it's a problem." As such, formally joining NATO greatly increases the danger to Sweden.

The Swedes aren't most directly endangered by Russia. They're most directly endangered by their ambition for joining NATO, just as they're endangered by their present affiliation with NATO. When it comes to Sweden aligning with NATO, the only winner is NATO, because it distracts Russia with an additional target and could result in some Russian assets being redirected from Europe to Sweden in the event of conflict. Meanwhile, had Sweden not aligned with NATO, Russia would have been unlikely to molest Sweden in any way.
Twitter: @DefconNavarro

krzepice1976
Regular contributor
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:39 pm
Location: europe

Re: Sweden nato

Postby krzepice1976 » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:43 am

Navarro wrote:
ThunderStealer wrote:When they considered NATO membership last year the Russians threatened them with retaliation as they roll out the heavy hardware, and then in typical Russian fashion, "that wasn't a threat....just you know....something we say".

Threat or not, it's a point of logic. Sweden is very large, sparsely populated and doesn't possess any strategic resources in large enough quantity to be worth capturing, from Russia's perspective. It would then require a large effort to conquer Sweden, with little to gain in return. What's more: Sweden doesn't share a land border with Russia, further reducing Russia's inclination to act militarily against it. However, by aligning with NATO, Sweden becomes a target for the simple fact that "it's a problem.
The Swedes aren't most directly endangered by Russia. They're most directly endangered by their ambition for joining NATO, just as they're endangered by their present affiliation with NATO. When it comes to Sweden aligning with NATO, the only winner is NATO, because it distracts Russia with an additional target and could result in some Russian assets being redirected from Europe to Sweden in the event of conflict. Meanwhile, had Sweden not aligned with NATO, Russia would have been unlikely to molest Sweden..

Please consider island Gotland.Russia may be interesy in controling this part of sweden.
Sweden newspapers suggest that sweden can participate in baltic states defence in case of russian invasion.see sweden investment in baltic states for details.

Us and have some Agreement so topic sweden as a target is not so simple.

User avatar
ThunderStealer
Regular contributor
Posts: 828
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:01 am

Re: Sweden nato

Postby ThunderStealer » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:48 pm

Navarro wrote:
ThunderStealer wrote:When they considered NATO membership last year the Russians threatened them with retaliation as they roll out the heavy hardware, and then in typical Russian fashion, "that wasn't a threat....just you know....something we say".

Threat or not, it's a point of logic. Sweden is very large, sparsely populated and doesn't possess any strategic resources in large enough quantity to be worth capturing, from Russia's perspective. It would then require a large effort to conquer Sweden, with little to gain in return. What's more: Sweden doesn't share a land border with Russia, further reducing Russia's inclination to act militarily against it. However, by aligning with NATO, Sweden becomes a target for the simple fact that "it's a problem." As such, formally joining NATO greatly increases the danger to Sweden.

The Swedes aren't most directly endangered by Russia. They're most directly endangered by their ambition for joining NATO, just as they're endangered by their present affiliation with NATO. When it comes to Sweden aligning with NATO, the only winner is NATO, because it distracts Russia with an additional target and could result in some Russian assets being redirected from Europe to Sweden in the event of conflict. Meanwhile, had Sweden not aligned with NATO, Russia would have been unlikely to molest Sweden in any way.


And it allows us to park our "missile defense shield" pretty close to Leningrad. ;)

If I were Putin, I'd invade Sweden for the hot blondes and let them keep the rest.
"Rules of the day, if the car gets immobilized, start shooting. Nobody gets traded, everybody dies." - Body of Lies

User avatar
Navarro
DWS Staff
DWS Staff
Posts: 2010
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:01 am

Re: Sweden nato

Postby Navarro » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:08 pm

krzepice1976 wrote:Please consider island Gotland.Russia may be interesy in controling this part of sweden.
Sweden newspapers suggest that sweden can participate in baltic states defence in case of russian invasion.see sweden investment in baltic states for details.

Us and have some Agreement so topic sweden as a target is not so simple.

Gotland is a minor island populated by only 57,000 inhabitants. It's location is strategically advantageous, and so it's indeed possible that Russia might be inclined to capture that territory. However, if the Russians act to cease Gotland, Sweden would be wise to cede it without contest. NATO would be extremely unlikely to intervene if the Russians capture Gotland, Sweden would be in no position to retake the island, and any attempt at counter-attack would risk the lives of ten million Swedes over a sliver of strategic territory.

If Sweden is concerned about Gotland, it should erect extensive naval and air defenses there, producing their own A2/AD. The Russians would want nothing to do with that. Joining NATO only increases the probability of a Russian attack, so long as Sweden is committed to neutrality.

ThunderStealer wrote:And it allows us to park our "missile defense shield" pretty close to Leningrad. ;)

America's ABM assets would likely only be effective in the event of a limited exchange, which is extremely improbable. Also, Estonia, a present NATO ally, is much nearer to Leningrad/Saint Petersburg than Sweden.
Twitter: @DefconNavarro

User avatar
ThunderStealer
Regular contributor
Posts: 828
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:01 am

Re: Sweden nato

Postby ThunderStealer » Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:14 pm

Navarro wrote:
ThunderStealer wrote:And it allows us to park our "missile defense shield" pretty close to Leningrad. ;)

America's ABM assets would likely only be effective in the event of a limited exchange, which is extremely improbable. Also, Estonia, a present NATO ally, is much nearer to Leningrad/Saint Petersburg than Sweden.



Sorry, I was being a bit of a smart ass that time.
"Rules of the day, if the car gets immobilized, start shooting. Nobody gets traded, everybody dies." - Body of Lies

krzepice1976
Regular contributor
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:39 pm
Location: europe

Re: Sweden nato

Postby krzepice1976 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:22 am

Sweden’s most respected foreign policy institute has accused Russia of using underhand methods, including fake news, counterfeit documents, and other disinformation, to influence Swedish decision-making
The report by Martin Kragh, a Russia expert at the Swedish Institute of International Affairs, is the first empirical study detailing Russia’s use of 'active measures' in its information war against Sweden, which is largely directed at steering the country away from joining Nato. 
 
“The study lies within a subject area which a lot of people are discussing right now, and we want to contribute to that discussion,” Kragh told Sweden’s Dagens Nyheter newspaper.
 
“It is completely normal for a foreign minister to say that some development concerns them, or is positive, but what we see as a problem is when illegitimate methods are used to try to influence opinion or decision-making in Sweden.” 
 
“It may not necessarily be politically effective to spread false documents, but we believe it demonstrates an intention to influence decision-making and that in itself is a reason to try to document and understand the ways in which it is carried out.” According the report, “active measures” are designed “to hamper the target country’s ability to generate public support in pursuing its policies”.
 
Such measures have included the Russian government deploying troll armies on Swedish Twitter, launching its own Swedish-language version of the news site Sputnik, and spreading fake documents, 26 of which Kragh has identified.   
 
“In social media, troll armies are targeting journalists and academics, including the ‘hijacking’ of Twitter accounts,” the report reads.
 
“Disinformation on NATO and suspected intrusions by foreign submarines have appeared in Swedish media, themes which were picked up by Sputnik, RT and other sources of Russian public diplomacy and broadcast to an international audience.” Kragh and his colleagues identified ten forged documents relating exclusively to Swedish affairs, three of which they examine in detail in the paper.

http://www.thelocal.se/20170107/swedish ... -new-study

rudemarine
.
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:48 pm

Re: Sweden nato

Postby rudemarine » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:48 am

Sweden needs to stay neutral, especially after NATO has been lying to remove leaders and has been used to destroy so many lives for no good dam reason.


Return to “Geopolitical Events”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests