Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

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Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Zanting » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:41 am

Worldwatcher wrote:I've continued this in a General Discussion thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6117&p=55409#p55409
10-4.

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Worldwatcher » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:29 am

Zanting wrote:-snip-
I've continued this in a General Discussion thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6117&p=55409#p55409

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Zanting » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:16 am

jayfeather31 wrote:If it is common sense; what then, is your solution?
Take responsibility and use common sense.
Worldwatcher wrote:I agree, in well functioning society, terrorism and to a lesser extent crime would be at lower rates, although, there is a fine line having between an "optimal society" and something far more dangerous...
I fear this is getting too off topic though.
I usually do not use metaphors.

If you can imagine society as an engine block, what we used to seek as the highest ideal could be construed as the cylinder bore, but an outside force has struck a defect or fracture in our block so that if we go too far now the engine will stop working entirely. If we keep using this engine we will eventually destroy ourselves as all modifications or temporary fixes do not address the cracked foundation which holds everything together, it is not how we are or were meant to go forward, we need a new engine basically.

There isn't much to discuss with the knife attack though so I don't mind discussing this.

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Worldwatcher » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:07 am

Zanting wrote:
Worldwatcher wrote:It's easier said then done I'm afraid, and terrorists can come from ALL facets of society.
That itself is not an argument to not seek societal optimization & preservation though, mental illness obviously decreases if root causes of it are eliminated or lessened, social cohesion & health used to be referred to as common sense. Crime & terrorism do not just happen without reason, there are many causes, again this is merely common sense.
I agree, in well functioning society, terrorism and to a lesser extent crime would be at lower rates, although, there is a fine line having between an "optimal society" and something far more dangerous...
I fear this is getting too off topic though.

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by jayfeather31 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:04 am

Zanting wrote:
Worldwatcher wrote:It's easier said then done I'm afraid, and terrorists can come from ALL facets of society.
That itself is not an argument to not seek societal optimization & preservation though, mental illness obviously decreases if root causes of it are eliminated or lessened, social cohesion & health used to be referred to as common sense. Crime & terrorism do not just happen without reason, there are many causes, again this is merely common sense.
If it is common sense; what then, is your solution?

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Zanting » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:47 am

Worldwatcher wrote:It's easier said then done I'm afraid, and terrorists can come from ALL facets of society.
That itself is not an argument to not seek societal optimization & preservation though, mental illness obviously decreases if root causes of it are eliminated or lessened, social cohesion & health used to be referred to as common sense. Crime & terrorism do not just happen without reason, there are many causes, again this is merely common sense.

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Worldwatcher » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:34 am

Zanting wrote:
Worldwatcher wrote:Mental illness can be screened for easily, terrorism is VERY difficult.
Build a very cohesive & homogeneous society, or more correctly return to one, remove elements which are corrosive to this. Done.
It's easier said then done I'm afraid, and terrorists can come from ALL facets of society.

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Zanting » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:28 am

Worldwatcher wrote:Mental illness can be screened for easily, terrorism is VERY difficult.
Build a very cohesive & homogeneous society, or more correctly return to one, remove elements which are corrosive to this. Done.

Recently there was a Danish teenager who killed herself because she was afraid a "potentially racist" insinuation would cause a backlash, from the perspective of WN Danes, this is obviously a ridiculous state of affairs to even be in.
Worldwatcher wrote:Here is the Sydney story: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-22/m ... ed/7650882

Often times mental illness is the main reason why these things happen, not necessarily always though, and this current case may be either one of the two. The main reason for confusion among people and the media, is that there is no agreed upon definition of terrorism, and by extension, there is a large grey area about who is and isn't a terrorist.
He appears to be an Aussie.

With regards to this, if someone who isn't a natural citizen commits an act to push foreign culture, ideology or politics then it is in fact terrorism against that specific nomenclature. This is the definition. It isn't relevant to whether it is coupled with mental illness or not if these factors are present, the media has an agenda with this, which is being pushed at an increasing pace. This is not confusion but is in fact purposeful disinformation.

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Worldwatcher » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:24 am

Zanting wrote:
Worldwatcher wrote:He could be mentally ill. I'm not saying it isn't terrorism. When someone drove a flaming car full of gas canisters into a Sydney police station last month the media screamed terrorism, but the next day it was found that the guy was mentally ill and had a court date the next day. It works both ways.
Did they release his name though? I can't find it.

Mental illness by itself is a commonly used narrative to deflect the actual issue of terrorism by the media though at least regarding Islamic terrorism, this case you mentioned might be an actual legitimate example of that though, if a mental illness was the sole cause.
Here is the Sydney story: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-22/m ... ed/7650882

Often times mental illness is the main reason why these things happen, not necessarily always though, and this current case may be either one of the two. The main reason for confusion among people and the media, is that there is no agreed upon definition of terrorism, and by extension, there is a large grey area about who is and isn't a terrorist.

Re: Knife Attack At Music Festival In Oberhausen, Germany

by Worldwatcher » Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:18 am

hrng wrote:
Worldwatcher wrote:
Zanting wrote:
If he said "Allahu Akbar" he is an Islamic terrorist, I'd trust the witness, more than the media or services pushing their agenda(s) there.
He could be mentally ill. I'm not saying it isn't terrorism. When someone drove a flaming car full of gas canisters into a Sydney police station last month the media screamed terrorism, but the next day it was found that the guy was mentally ill and had a court date the next day. It works both ways.
What's the difference?
Mental illness can be screened for easily, terrorism is VERY difficult.

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